April 26, 2025 – Amy Spitalnick on How Jewish Safety and Inclusive Democracy are Inextricably Linked

 

REV. PAUL BRANDEIS RAUSHENBUSH, HOST:

Amy Spitalnik is the CEO of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, the national convener of Jewish coalitions working to build a just and inclusive democracy. With extensive experience in government and advocacy, Amy serves on several boards and frequently appears – thankfully, I’m so glad she appears – in national media to discuss these critical issues that we’re going to talk about today.

 

Welcome back to The State of Belief, Amy.

 

AMY SPITALNICK, GUEST:

 

Thank you so much for having me.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

So I’m starting the conversations with everyone asking an honest question: How are you?

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

You know. I am.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

That’s a fair answer.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

I think none of us would say that we are doing great in this moment. The silver lining to everything is that it’s also been an opportunity to really come together with so many values-aligned partners and allies and friends in this work. And so as challenging as the last few months have been, there have also been so many moments in which I found myself sort of steeled by the partners and the friends and the allies that we get to work with in this fight. And that has given me a lot of hope and inspiration at a time when it feels sorely needed.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

That is perfectly said. And I do want to mention you have been really speaking out about antisemitism and the reality of it, and how authentically challenging this moment is for Jews in America, as well as talking about some of the helpful and unhelpful ways that antisemitism is being addressed right now. Can you bring the listeners up to speed about how you view what’s going on right now with antisemitism, and some of the ways that are being used to combat it that you might have a question about.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

What is so lacking from the conversation is that multiple things can be true at the same time. For the last few months in particular, but even longer than that – this is a an approach that predates Trump in many ways – most extreme voices have told us that Jewish safety and democracy are at odds with one another, when in fact we know that they are one and the same and inextricably linked. We can’t have inclusive democracy without Jewish safety, and we can’t have Jewish safety without inclusive democracy.

 

But in particular right now, especially since these arrests and deportations of college students have started, but certainly before that, we’ve seen a very deliberate effort to take our legitimate concerns about antisemitism – and antisemitism is real, it is increasing, it exists across the political spectrum, and it is dangerous – but we’ve seen an effort to take our real and legitimate concerns about this antisemitism and exploit it to undermine the rule of law, due process, civil liberties, our education institutions, and our democracy. And that does nothing to make Jews safer. In fact, it makes Jews less safe because, in many ways, we are then scapegoated for the things that are happening in our name; and at the same time, we know that, again, Jewish safety is inextricably linked with inclusive democracy. So as we see the rights and safety of any community undermined, it is ultimately going to lead to our rights and safety undermined, as well.

 

And so none of this is good for the Jews. We need a very deliberate and constructive and comprehensive approach to countering real antisemitism, whether it is the normalized antisemitism in the form of right-wing conspiracy theories, or the increasingly normalized antisemitism that we’re seeing in certain left spaces, including on college campuses, related to Israel. And we can do that without abandoning the core democratic norms and values that have kept Jews and so many others safe in this country for so long.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

What you just said, I just want to shout it to the rooftops. And I see you out there, in The New York Times, on major media sources, and every time – I hope you see it, because every time I see it on social media, I’m like, thank you, Amy for holding all of this at the same time! Because I think it’s so important, I want you to know that I am supporting you, and that so many of us are. Because I can imagine it’s lonely when you’re trying to put a complex idea out there in a moment where everybody’s just shouting and trying to score political points. I really, really admire exactly what you just said.

 

And I think in some ways, part of the tragedy of this moment is so many Jewish intellectual leaders helped build the infrastructure for civil rights and due process, and helped build university institutions, and university institutions were so important for the thriving of Jewish life in this country. And I think that’s part of my Jewish heritage, I look to as part of what built this infrastructure that safeguarded everyone, including unpopular people.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Literally in the case of your family.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Yeah, unpopular people. And recognize, yes, these are not popular people, but that’s exactly why they need to have the due process, because we know what it’s like to not be given due process. Because especially the Jewish part of my family came here from Europe, from a system that was created to create barriers for Jews in public life.

 

And I just think I want to get into that, because I would love for you to talk about, like, let’s be real about the concerns about antisemitism. And as you say, there are definitely concerns about antisemitism on college campuses, but it’s not the only location for antisemitism in America. And so talk to me about how you understand the landscape. Also, I do want to just mention, JCPA deals with a lot of stuff that is not just this. So we are going to talk about other really important work. It’s all connected.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

It’s all connected, though.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

It’s all connected with the deep roots of the Jewish community in American life that with JCPA goes back decades, maybe centuries.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

81years. 81 years.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Yeah, so let’s celebrate that. Anyway, talk to me first about how you understand some antisemitism manifesting, and if you were in charge of it – which I would gladly put you in charge of, you may not want to be in charge of it – but talk to me a little bit about how you understand antisemitism in America today.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Well, in so many ways, the history of JCPA is actually very informative in understanding how we understand antisemitism and how we understand how we fight antisemitism. 81 years ago, JCPA was founded because Jews here were advocating desperately for European Jewry.

 

My own family, also my grandparents, were survivors. The rest of their families were not as fortunate and did not get out and did not survive. And Jews here were quite literally banging down the White House door trying to get our government to do something – and not succeeding in the way that we needed to. And so there was this recognition that our safety as Jews was deeply connected to our ability to build strong cross-community coalitions that advocate for the safety and the rights of all.

 

And it led to, sort of to your point, JCPA in the 1950s worked with the NAACP and labor unions to co-found the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, of which we are still a proud and active member. I just joined the board this year. We mobilized Jews to show up in Selma and the March on Washington. We’ve been advocating for these issues throughout the 81 years of our history, because, as we really started this conversation, there’s a recognition that Jewish safety and democracy are inextricably linked.

And what’s unique about antisemitism is, yes, it operates like so many forms of hate: hating Jews because of who we are, how we pray or don’t pray, what we look like, what we do and don’t do. And that is certainly true. But in many ways, antisemitism also operates uniquely as this insidious, pernicious conspiracy theory rooted in tropes and lies about Jewish control and power. And that is why it doesn’t just fundamentally threaten Jews – although that alone should be enough to spur people to action – but because it is intended to sow distrust in our institutions and our government and our democracy itself; to create division and pit communities against one another. As this conspiracy theory, it fundamentally threatens all communities and the core of our democracy. And so we see it happening and manifesting in a number of different forms.

 

I, before this, worked on bringing this lawsuit against the neo-Nazis that attacked Charlottesville…

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Talk about that, because I want to make sure people know how instrumental you were. That was you! And so people need to know you were really instrumental in that. And that was when I first got acquainted with you – not that you were my bestie, that I’m trying to say that; but I became aware of your work and so impressed with your work. Say a few sentences about that, because it’s important that people understand that you’ve been in this fight for a while.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Well, it’s funny. When Charlottesville happened, when Unite the Right happened in August of 2017, I was working in the New York Attorney General’s office during the first Trump administration, which in many ways was simply just a taste of what we’re experiencing now. And we were leading a number of… I was running communications and policy in that office; we were leading a number of legal efforts, coalitions of attorneys general, against the Muslim Ban, against the DACA repeal, against environmental and reproductive rollbacks.

 

And when Unite the Right happened, the violence in Charlottesville happened, for me it was a moment that really ripped off the Band-Aid in terms of the antisemitism that, at least for me through my entire life, felt like a far-off piece of my family’s history – but not something that would necessarily have direct real implications for me in America at a place when I really thought Jews were safe.

But Nazis chanting “Jews will not replace us!”, storming a university, surrounding a synagogue with semi-automatic weapons, and ultimately murdering Heather Heyer and injuring many others, was, in so many ways, a preview of the violent extremism that’s become so normalized and constant in the American story over the last decade. And the antisemitism that’s at the core of it, this idea of Jews will not replace us, speaks to this increasingly mainstreamed conspiracy theory: the great replacement, the invasion and replacement rhetoric that has really begun to underpin a lot of the policies we now see coming out of the White House on immigration and voting rights and whatnot.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Also, just in addition, the Tree of Life shooting was rooted, the murderer was directly referencing that, as well. And then, to connect it again with the broader community, so was the attack in Buffalo…

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

El Paso, Christchurch…

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Christchurch in New Zealand. So it’s really helpful to kind of put these pieces together, as you’re saying, because this is the reality of what is out there.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Exactly. And look at the cycle of violence that followed Charlottesville, as you mentioned: Poway and El Paso and Buffalo, Pittsburgh, the deadliest attack on the Jewish community in U.S. history, is exactly inspired by this very same conspiracy theory. And we see how in this cycle of violence, this antisemitism doesn’t just target Jews – although again, that alone should be enough – but it’s led to the mass murder of Black people and Latino people and Muslim people and so many others.

And again, as these conspiracy theories are now so normalized in our politics and society…

 

But you know, one of the glimmers of hope over the last few years, for me, is that I was really proud to lead this nonprofit where we worked with the plaintiffs, on an incredible legal team, in bringing this lawsuit against the Nazis and White supremacists that orchestrated that violence. It was not an accident. It was planned in advance on social media and beyond. And we brought a civil lawsuit against the two dozen individuals and groups most directly responsible at that point, household names like Richard Spencer or the KKK or National Socialist Movement and others. And after a long, long litigation, ultimately won that lawsuit to the tune of  $26 million. And we’ve seen many of these extremists now sort of bankrupted and marginalized as a result of the accountability that they faced.

 

And that matters at a time when it feels like not only is there such little accountability, but these ideas have moved from the fringes to the mainstream, proving that there is still consequence for your actions, that you will still face accountability, felt all the more important. And the work on that case really shaped my understanding of how antisemitism works. We had incredible expert witnesses in the case – Deborah Lipstadt, now former ambassador, among others, served as expert witnesses. And seeing how it played out, how it really underpinned the racism, the White nationalism, the xenophobia, it was very clear that you can’t counter any one form of hate without confronting all of them that are deeply wrapped up in this increasingly normalized extremism.

 

And sort of to bring it back to your original question, we are no – at least those of us who work in these spaces – I think, increasingly aware of how this antisemitism is manifesting on the right in the form of these conspiracy theories that have led to mass violence, that has led to sort of this normalization of a lot of these tropes and ideas, this idea that there are good or bad Jews. We hear this a lot from President Trump: loyal or disloyal Jews; or Senator Chuck Schumer, the highest-ranking Jewish elected official in the US is somehow a Palestinian, which is both racist and antisemitic – using this idea that “Palestinian” is a slur is a horrific idea in and of itself.

 

And then this idea that Trump is somehow the arbiter of who’s a good Jew or not. It all plays into this idea that there are good and bad Jews. The bad Jews are the ones who are seeking to replace the White race through support for immigrants and refugees, Black and Brown people and others. And it leads to a lot of not just the White supremacist violence we were talking about, but January 6th, right? What else is “stop the steal” if not the idea that some shadowy cabal is trying to steal our elections. It’s underpinning the anti-immigrant executive orders we’ve seen. We quite literally see this invasion and replacement rhetoric in these executive orders. It’s underpinning horrific bills like the SAVE Act, which would potentially disenfranchise millions and millions of Americans.

 

And so we know that there is this increasingly normalized antisemitism that has been mainstreamed by people in the highest levels of our politics and our society, and it is dangerous and needs to be called out.

 

It’s harder to understand how antisemitism works in more progressive spaces, because while it’s underpinned by some of the same conspiracy theories and tropes around Jewish control and power, it oftentimes intersects with the conversation on Israel, and how to sufficiently distinguish between criticism of Israeli policy, which is fair and important, versus where that line is crossed into real harmful antisemitism is a challenge for some in more progressive spaces. And that’s where a lot of our work is, as well, is both being clear about the fact that there is real antisemitism, whether it’s on campuses or in other spaces, targeting Jews for the actions of the Israeli government, seeking to ban or boycott, quote-unquote, “Zionists” – which, when 80 to 90% of Jews have a relationship with Israel, even if we don’t agree with its government or its policies, would effectively discriminate against 80 to 90% of American Jews, the vast majority of us.

 

My own synagogue being targeted in the aftermath of October 7th, Jewish students being told to denounce their identity or their connections to the Jewish homeland or the Jewish right to self-determination. all of these questions effectively being used as a way to separate and discriminate against Jews and pull us out of the very spaces and coalitions that we need to be in, which has the intent of not only harming Jews – which, again, in and of itself is enough – but it also breaks apart the very coalitions that we need right now to protect our democracy, to protect our communities.

 

So this increasingly normalized antisemitism happening in the context of the Israel conversation is having this deeply chilling impact on Jews and our ability to really be, to live, to study, to work in some of the spaces that we need to. And it ultimately fundamentally undercuts our democracy, as well, because it seeks to remove us, to separate us from the very communities and coalitions in which we need to be to protect our democracy.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Yeah, it is very tough when you’re getting it from the left and the right. And I’ll say when the redress for – at least for campus life – is is done in such… You know, Cornell is being hit with a billion-dollar… This is kind of existential moment. And then I, actually, used to be very involved because I did campus life and religion on campus, that was part of my career. I’m just having a really hard time imagining how this, ultimately, is helping the broader understanding of community on college campuses, and what does it do for Jews on college campus?

 

Have you been in conversation with Jewish life on college campuses, and what are some of the implications of what is being levied against – I think it’s just at the beginning of the use of federal fund withholding – and they call it for civil rights, but I have no idea exactly what they’re expecting to happen. And so I just am curious, what have you been hearing about what’s going on on campus, especially in locations where this is taking effect?

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

So one of the best parts of my job is actually getting to be out on campus and communities around the country, talking to students and to Jewish leaders and faculty and others, and in the last month alone I’ve been speaking to students and faculty and staff at a number of universities: University of Michigan; last night I was at Columbia speaking to Jewish students; my own alma mater, Tufts, which has also been in the news because of the grad student who was arrested there seemingly for an op-ed that she wrote in the Tufts Daily, which was the college paper I wrote in when I was an undergrad. I was the Hillel president at Tufts. I serve on the board of directors, now, for the Hillel.

 

Jewish students and the Jewish community are effectively being used – and are real concerns – that these students, faculty, and others are being used as the excuse to go after the rights and safety of their classmates and to gut our education institutions. And I have not heard from a single student or faculty member at any of these places who thinks this is good for their well-being and safety on campus. In fact, they think the opposite. And again, multiple things can be true at the same time, right? Many of these students have been begging for action from their administrators on campus to address what they rightfully feel is real antisemitic harm that’s happening.

 

And in some cases, thankfully, it has happened. We’ve seen a significant improvement in a number of campuses from the first year after October 7 to this year, where just uniform enforcement of codes of conduct and other things have led to Jewish students in general, I think, having a different experience that they might have had in the immediate aftermath of October 7.

 

That doesn’t mean that there still isn’t very real challenges and problems on college campuses. At the same time, they don’t want to be used as the excuse for their institutions to be gutted; for the research and the education programs that are at the core of their own education that have been so integral to Jewish advancement in this country. And for the rights and safety of their classmates to be effectively undermined in service of supposedly countering antisemitism. And so it’s been heartbreaking. I think so many on the national level are using these students without these students actual voice being found anywhere in the conversation.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Isn’t that interesting? I’m so glad you’re saying this, because I honestly have been listening, trying to find those voices. I’m sure that they are out there. I just find it just heartbreaking. And then I just hate that this is being used as a tool to attack.

 

And then you have like, well, we’re going to take away however much from Michigan because of DEI, which gives away the game for me. You’re not really respecting diversity. If you really respect diversity, Jewish lives are part of diversity. If you really want to respect safety, equity is part of being safe. Inclusion, making sure Jewish lives are – that’s DEI. Maybe you don’t like the way it’s being manifested or whatever, but these broad attacks, there’s so many things coming at us at once… And it’s trying to figure out where to weigh in.

 

And just as someone who, my father was a law professor, my grandmother was in the academy, my family is so invested in the academy. And then to see the academy being attacked, and maybe attempted decimation – because that’s a playbook in authoritarian efforts. And you’ve set it out so well, and I just appreciate so much of what you’re doing.

 

In addition to all the work on antisemitism that JCPA is taking a leadership role on, what else are you looking at as far as really important to really lift up as a Jewish value and something that Jewish communities are mobilizing and need to mobilize about in this moment?

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Well, in so many ways, everything we do fundamentally comes back to this framework: that Jewish safety and inclusive democracy are inextricably linked. And so even if, on the surface, some of the work we’re doing might not be understood as traditionally countering antisemitism or protecting Jewish safety, to me, to us, it’s all ultimately rooted in that worldview – because we’re not safe if immigrants or LGBTQ people or Black people or so many others are being threatened. And this is for a number of reasons.

 

One, first and foremost, the Jewish community itself is incredibly diverse, which oftentimes gets lost in the conversation. Jews of color, LGBTQ Jews, immigrant and refugee Jews, you can go on and on. A significant portion of our community. And so when you talk about attacking and ending diversity, equity, and inclusion, for example, that is bad for so many reasons for the Jews. Bad because it’s at odds with our values and with the inclusive democracy that’s important to our safety. Bad because it threatens the Jews who rely on diversity, equity, and inclusion in a number of ways because they are Jews of color or otherwise. And bad because actually, to your point, diversity, equity, and inclusion can and must and has been in a number of places, cases, quite inclusive of the Jewish community and our history and our identities.

 

We’re now seeing, for example, federal agencies that are ending Holocaust remembrance commemorations; that are removing Jewish women from military exhibits. Ultimately, Jews have relied on diversity, equity, and inclusion to advance in this country, as well, both because of the diversity of our community and because we too are a minority in this country. And not that long ago, there were neighborhoods and clubs and schools that didn’t allow Jews in. And so if we think that we are not going to be impacted by this, that this is not coming for us – first, it already is, and it is only going to that come for the Jewish community even more. And so we are doing a lot of work.

 

For example, we’re part of this Demand Diversity Roundtable with a number of our national civil rights partners, the National Urban League and otherwise, advocating to protect diversity, equity, inclusion. And as we’ve been saying in these spaces, we believe it’s not only necessary but possible and necessary to advance diversity, equity, inclusion in a way that is wholly inclusive of the Jewish community, our history, and our identities. And that is so crucial for so many reasons. Because again, we see the Jewish community being used as, effectively, a political football to go after these core values and policies that we know are inherent to our own values and safety.

 

And this is also true with immigration, with LGBTQ rights, with voting rights, and so much else. And so the core of our work really fits into the buckets of how are we protecting democracy and how are we countering hate and extremism in this moment, whether it is advocating for strong voting rights and protections or against bills like the SAVE Act that would disenfranchise millions; whether it’s fighting to counter disinformation and make sure that social media is accountable and not used to advance disinformation, and other influence campaigns; whether it is protecting fundamental immigrant rights and LGBTQ rights, reproductive rights, and more. Because again, at the end of the day, this all connects directly to not just our values as Jews, but our own safety and rights as Jews.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

One of the things that’s been really interesting is just the obliteration of the USAID. And I think about HIAS and how important some of these groups that have been involved in refugee efforts – for the Jews, originally, but then have expanded their mission in an incredible way, totally in the values of America: you can find safety, sanctuary here. And yet this has been a devastating administration for HIAS and for many of the conservative Christian organizations that have done this work out of their own values. And I just think that that’s an important area, also, when we think about: it’s not only domestically, it’s how important the work that Jewish organizations have been doing around helping people around the world. And I believe HIAS has actually filed a suit against…

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

And they’ve had some wins in court.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Yeah, they’ve had some wins in court, because I think a lot of this is so capricious. And so, oh, we’re just going to do this. I mean, based on what? And so I do think there’s so many domestic issues, but also the way that Jewish groups, in some ways, are being curtailed in fulfilling their mission.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

And it’s jeopardizing the safety of Jews around the world as a result. For an administration that, again, purports to care about Jewish safety and antisemitism, there are so many things they could do if they actually cared about antisemitism. We can talk about that. But one of the things they wouldn’t do was gut the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, which has been playing a crucial role in supporting refugees and immigrants around the world, including Jewish refugees, for example, and asylum seekers in Iran, who are facing very real threats to their safety – and who are now at risk because of these cuts.

 

HIAS is such a core partner of ours, the work that they do is so rooted in the same, I think, the same worldview and values that we’ve been talking about here, and it’s important to understand these cuts and the danger that they pose on so many levels. First and foremost, the ways in which it’s just putting lives at risk, first and foremost. Asylum seekers, refugees, immigrants – we are quite literally seeing this administration put people’s lives at risk because of their politics and their desire to gut these immigrant and refugee organizations.

 

We also know that the ways in which they’ve demonized these groups leads directly to violence here at home. So we talked about Pittsburgh earlier. The Tree of Life White supremacist shooter specifically targeted that congregation because they work with HIAS to support immigrants and refugees. And it plays directly into this Great Replacement conspiracy theory, this idea that Jews are orchestrating the replacement of the White race through support for immigrants and refugees. So by demonizing these groups, it only further emboldens that extremism.

 

But there’s also this longer-term implication for an administration that purports to care about American stature and power in the world. We have now ceded the entirety of the soft power that is so crucial to American leadership. And who’s going to come in to fill that vacuum? It’s not going to be the good guys. It’s going to be places like Russia and China and others who do not have our core interests and values in mind. And it’s only going to make America less safe. So not only are we threatening lives and safety of these immigrants and refugees and asylum seekers, which in and of itself is devastating; not only are we further emboldening extremists here at home by demonizing immigrant communities and those who support them; but we’re fundamentally making America less safe, and undermining our own strength and power on a global basis. And none of this is good for anyone who cares about Jewish safety, American safety, or our core values.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

It’s also really important to recognize that one area that they have not really paid attention to with antisemitism is the kind of homegrown White identity, Christian identity militia movement that is a core, frankly, a core constituency, which is where, actually, antisemitism is exploding. If you look at Southern Poverty Law Center or any of the monitoring, it’s like, the very real expansion of antisemitism in these spaces is happening. And yet I have yet to see the administration really take that on in a way that shows a seriousness of rebuking this part of their own following, frankly.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Well, I would go even further and say that it’s not only they haven’t taken it on, they’ve actually made decisions that intend to embolden it. So you could look at, for example, the fact that the FBI just gutted a number of staff and programs that were specifically focused on tracking and confronting violent White supremacy. You could look at the people who have been appointed to positions in this government, like the Deputy Press Secretary at the Department of Defense, or Elon Musk, all of whom have trafficked directly in neo-Nazi, White supremacist, antisemitic conspiracy theories and ideas. The DOD press secretary, in particular, is this horrific example where she has this long history engaging in these Leo Frank conspiracy theories. These are deep cuts in terms of what White supremacists believe. If you are engaging in these sorts of conspiracy theories, you are down the rabbit hole of neo-Nazi propaganda online.

 

And so these people have not only been given a pass, in some cases they’ve been elevated. January 6th insurrectionists, many of whom were showing up in Camp Auschwitz shirts or Confederate flags and other antisemitic and extremist paraphernalia, pardoned. The Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Ed, which is specifically the tool we have to protect students and others on campus, has been decimated by this administration.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

And all the mechanisms, and you and I both know people who were in that, the faith area: Katie Joseph, Maggie Siddiqi, they were really trying to create really good mechanisms by which people, every student, could feel safe. All of them, all of them taken down first day.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

And the conversation about like, did they do enough? Was there enough? I would argue that the Biden administration did not do enough to invest in OCR. In some ways, our hands were tied because of Republican members of Congress, but we had like 50 cases per each OCR caseworker under Biden. So it was already starting from a place where we were not treating this with the urgency that it needed. And to your point, there were many folks there who were trying to do the right thing despite the limited resources they had.

 

And now we’ve seen OCR offices around the country gutted, obviously this effort to totally decimate the Department of Education, more broadly. So for an administration that keeps talking about how they are going to confront antisemitism and protect Jewish safety, everything that they are doing is seemingly at odds with that in many ways. And so it’s a worthy goal. If this administration were serious about confronting antisemitism on campus or more broadly, that would be fantastic because that is a real crisis that requires real constructive action. But what they’re doing instead is, again, continuing to exploit our real concerns in service of the undermining of our rights, our democracy, and our institutions, while continuing to take steps to further embolden the sort of right-wing antisemitic conspiracy theories and ideas that have proven to make Jews and so many others less safe.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Do you know about the Goldmark case in Seattle? Are you acquainted with that? So this is another part of my family where there was a fellow in Washington who was becoming successful in politics, and he had two sons. And the John Birch Society and some other folks kind of did a smear campaign. It was part of the McCarthy era. And he was painted as a communist and as a Jew. And, you know, eventually, actually, Goldmark won the case, but it became in the echo chamber and in the air a little bit for the right wing, and it metastasized and metastasized until 40 years later, or 30 years later, one of the sons was living in Seattle with his children and his wife, and they were murdered by someone who had heard that there was a Jew and a communist.

 

And so this is pretty close family to me. And it’s not my story to tell exactly, but it is an important case in point of the kind of danger of this kind of rhetoric being out there and allowed to flourish. And you have crazy people. This guy, you know, maybe was crazy, but you have people hearing this and saying, okay, it’s my duty. And that’s what you’re getting with this militia, this Christian Identity Militia movement. And I just feel like we underappreciate the danger of conspiracy theories, because we think it’s kind of like, oh, it’s a conspiracy theory. But it could have real life and death implications.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Absolutely. And look, all of the research tells us – the University of Chicago has done some great and frightening research on this – that among the best predictors of antisemitism is belief in conspiracy theories. And that’s not shocking. We were talking earlier about these tropes and ideas around Jewish control and power, and they exist across the political spectrum. The Great Replacement, QAnon, and then Zionist control and power, the ways in which this antisemitism is so fundamentally rooted in conspiracy theories.

 

This administration, though, is exploiting real concerns about antisemitism in the Israel conversation; and on the left, in service of its dangerous agenda, while again emboldening and enabling the antisemitic conspiracy theories on the right that have already shown lead directly to real world violence. The ways in which the cycle of White supremacist violence: Charlottesville, Pittsburgh, Poway, El Paso, Buffalo, each attack is used to inspire the next one. And in so many of these cases, in all of those cases, the perpetrators specifically cited these conspiracy theories that have become so normalized by our elected officials.

 

And so when you hear it from the highest level of our power, when you see it embedded in policies coming out of the White House, when you see people who share this worldview being appointed to senior levels in our government, it is making Jews and so many others so much less safe. And it is so deeply dangerous.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

This doesn’t actually warrant your response, but I just can’t believe that after Elon Musk did the kind of Nazi salute, and then he, when confronted about it, he did Holocaust jokes. How is that not the end of his career? How did he maintain his space in this government and then wreak havoc like he has in such a profound way? It just feels like that should be a career-ender, but it wasn’t even a blip.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

And look at that happened. That happened two and a half months ago. And to your point, in the week since he, was given unprecedented control of everything from federal payments to the entire infrastructure of our government – faced no accountability. Continued to double and triple down on it. The Holocaust jokes; he spoke at the AFD conference in Germany, a far-right fascist party where he basically told Germany to get over the Holocaust. And then Vance goes to Europe and embraces the far-right fascist parties.

 

And so again, we both talked about our families’ deep history with European antisemitism and fascism. We are now seeing our government embrace some of the heirs to that legacy. And that is so horrifying and dangerous in a way that, whether it’s Musk, whether it’s Vice President Vance or anyone else, it normalizes this in a way that makes it all of a sudden acceptable; that it makes it not shocking that they’re not facing consequences for a Nazi salute or for antisemitic language, that it effectively desensitizes us to the increasingly normalized hate and extremism, and that’s the entire point.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

That’s right. That’s right. Permission granted. So what is the one thing – this is the last question I’m asking everybody, because everybody out there is like, well, I don’t know what to do. Everybody can do something. What’s that one thing you would like everyone, Jews and non-Jews, listeners, we have everybody listening, some people religious, some people completely not religious. What’s one thing you’d like people to do in this moment?

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

I think the most important thing is for each of us to not give up our voice right now, quite literally. The purpose of squashing democracy of civil liberties of squashing dissent is to scare us into not using our voice – and there was very legitimate reason to be concerned and cautious right now. It’s not crazy to be worried about what using your voice means, but that’s the entire purpose of what this administration is doing. And so in whatever form that takes, showing up at the protest, writing to your elected officials, telling your rabbi or your other faith leader that you would like to see your community speak out in support of the values of Jewish safety and democracy. And countering hate and extremism in all of its forms, while not abandoning our core democratic norms and values. Continuing to having those hard conversations in your community with your neighbors and your colleagues and your friends, despite the fact that it feels so challenging right now.

 

And so I think the most important thing that all of us can do is not give up our voice at a time when we are seeing the administration and so many others use the tools of extremism, of authoritarianism, to scare us into shutting up. And so we need to keep raising our voice in whatever form that takes, in whatever form as possible. That’s going to look different for everyone. But we need to be able to keep doing that. That is why we at JCPA have continued to speak out over and over again, particularly over the last five weeks since the first arrest at Columbia, because things are being done supposedly under the guise of keeping my community safe. And that is not what’s actually happening here. And we need to keep speaking out about, that no matter how desperately they try to scare us away from doing so.

 

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 

Amy Spitalnik is the CEO of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, the national convener of Jewish coalitions working to build a just and inclusive democracy. Follow this important work at JewishPublicAffairs.org. You can also find Amy on social media – well worth a follow.

 

Amy, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us on The State of Belief.

 

AMY SPITALNICK:

 

Thank you so much for having me.